The Biden-Trump Climate Debate, Transcribed With An Attempt At Accurately Portraying Trump's Interruptions And Identifying His Falsehoods
WALLACE: I would like to talk about climate change.
BIDEN: So would I.
WALLACE: Okay. The forest fires in the west are raging now. They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. When state officials there blame the fires on climate change, Mr. President, you said, 'I don't think the science knows.' Over your four years, you have pulled the US out of the Paris climate accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama environmental records [sic]. What do you believe about the science of climate change and what will you do in the next four years to confront it?
TRUMP: I want crystal clean water and air. I want beautiful clean air. We have now the lowest carbon. If you look at our numbers right now, we are doing phenomenally. [Ed.: False.] But I haven't destroyed our businesses. Our businesses aren't put out of commission. If you look at the Paris accord, it was a disaster from our standpoint. And people are actually very happy about what is going on, because our businesses are doing well.
As far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management in addition to everything else. The forest floors are loaded up with trees, dead trees that are years old, and they're like tinder and leaves and everything else. You drop a cigarette in there, the whole forest burns down. You've gotta have forest management, you've gotta have cuts ...
As far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management in addition to everything else. The forest floors are loaded up with trees, dead trees that are years old, and they're like tinder and leaves and everything else. You drop a cigarette in there, the whole forest burns down. You've gotta have forest management, you've gotta have cuts ...
WALLACE: What do you believe about the science of climate change, sir?
TRUMP: Uh, I believe that we have to do everything we can to have immaculate air, immaculate water and do whatever else we can that's good. You know, we'e planting a billion trees, the billion tree project, and it's very exciting to a lot of people.
WALLACE: Do you believe that human pollution, gas, greenhouse gas emissions contributes to the global warming of the planet?
TRUMP: I think that lot of things do, but to an extent yes, I think to an extent yes, but I also think we have to do better management of our forests. Every year, I get the call, California's burning, California is burning. If that was cleaned, if that were, if you had forest management, good forest management, you wouldn't be getting those calls. You know, in Europe they live their forest cities. They're called forest cities and they maintain their forests. I was with the head of a major country it's a forest city. He said, 'Sir, we have trees that are far more, they ignite much easier than California. There shouldn't be that problem.' [Ed.: He completely made this up.] I spoke with the Governor about it. I'm getting along very well with the governor. But I said, 'At some point you can't every year have hundreds of thousands of acres of land just burned to the ground.'
WALLACE: But sir ...
That's burning down because of a lack of management.
WALLACE: But sir, if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan which limited carbon emissions and power plants? Why have you relaxed...?
TRUMP: Because it was driving energy prices through the sky.
WALLACE: Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks?
TRUMP: Well, not really because what's happening is the car is much less expensive and it's a much safer car and you talk it about a tiny difference. And then what would happen because of the cost of the car you would have at least double and triple the number of cars purchased. We have the old slugs out there that are ten, twelve years old. If you did that, the car would be safer. It would be much cheaper by $3,500. [Ed.: Basically everything he said here is false.]
WALLACE: But in the case of California they have simply ignored that.
TRUMP: No, but you would take a lot of cars off the market because people would be able to afford a car. Now, by the way, we're going to see how that turns out. But a lot of people agree with me, many people. The car has gotten so expensive because they have computers all over the place for an extra little [WALLACE: Okay.] bit of gasoline. [BIDEN: That's not...] [Ed.: False.] And I'm okay with electric cars too. I think I'm all for electric cars. I've given big incentives for electric cars. [Ed.: False.] But what they've done in California is just crazy.
WALLACE: All right, Vice President Biden. I'd like you to respond to the president's climate change record but I also want to ask you about a concern. You propose $2 trillion in green jobs. You talk about new limits, not abolishing, but new limits on fracking. Ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035 and zero net emission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs.
BIDEN: He's absolutely wrong, number one. Number two, if, in fact, during our administration in the Recovery Act, I was in charge, able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to cheaper than or as cheap as coal and gas and oil. [Ed.: Getting there.] Nobody's going to build another coal-fired plant in America. No one's going to build another oil-fired plant in America. They're going to move to renewable energy.
Number one, number two, we're going to make sure that we are able to take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet that's run on their electric vehicles. Making sure that we can do that, we're going to put 500,000 charging stations in all of the highways that we're going to be building in the future.
We're going to build a economy that in fact is going to provide for the ability of us to take 4 million buildings and make sure that they in fact are weatherized in a way that in fact will, they'll emit significantly less gas and oil because the heat will not be going out.
There's so many things that we can do now to create thousands and thousands of jobs. We can get to net zero, in terms of energy production [sic], by 2035. Not only not costing people jobs, creating jobs, creating millions of good-paying jobs. Not 15 bucks an hour, but prevailing wage, by having a new infrastructure that in fact, is green.
And the first thing I will do, I will rejoin the Paris accord. I will join the Paris accord because with us out of it, look what's happening. It's all falling apart. And talk about someone who has no, no relationship with foreign policy. Brazil - the rainforests of Brazil are being torn down, are being ripped down. More, more carbon is absorbed in that rainforest than every bit of carbon that's emitted in the United States. Instead of doing something about that, I would be gathering up and making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion, and say, 'Here's $20 billion. Stop, stop tearing down the forest. And If you don't, then you're going to have significant economic consequences.'
Number one, number two, we're going to make sure that we are able to take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet that's run on their electric vehicles. Making sure that we can do that, we're going to put 500,000 charging stations in all of the highways that we're going to be building in the future.
We're going to build a economy that in fact is going to provide for the ability of us to take 4 million buildings and make sure that they in fact are weatherized in a way that in fact will, they'll emit significantly less gas and oil because the heat will not be going out.
There's so many things that we can do now to create thousands and thousands of jobs. We can get to net zero, in terms of energy production [sic], by 2035. Not only not costing people jobs, creating jobs, creating millions of good-paying jobs. Not 15 bucks an hour, but prevailing wage, by having a new infrastructure that in fact, is green.
And the first thing I will do, I will rejoin the Paris accord. I will join the Paris accord because with us out of it, look what's happening. It's all falling apart. And talk about someone who has no, no relationship with foreign policy. Brazil - the rainforests of Brazil are being torn down, are being ripped down. More, more carbon is absorbed in that rainforest than every bit of carbon that's emitted in the United States. Instead of doing something about that, I would be gathering up and making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion, and say, 'Here's $20 billion. Stop, stop tearing down the forest. And If you don't, then you're going to have significant economic consequences.'
WALLACE: What about the argument that President Trump basically says, that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests? And he's drawn his line.
BIDEN: Well, he hasn't drawn a line. He still for example, he wants to make sure that methane's not a problem [sic]. You can now emit more methane without it being a problem. Methane. This is a guy who says that you don't have to have mileage standards for automobiles that exist now. This is the guy who says that, the fact that ...
TRUMP: Not true. Not true.
TRUMP: He's talking about the Green New Deal.
BIDEN: It's all true. And here's the deal ...
TRUMP: And it's not 2 billion or 20 billion, as you said. It's 100 trillion dollars.
where two car systems are out,
where they want to take out the cows too.
BIDEN: I'm talking about the Biden plan. I'm ... I'm ...
WALLACE (to TRUMP): Let him go for a minute, and then you can go.
Where they want to rip down buildings and rebuild the building. It's the dumbest, most ridiculous where airplanes are out of business,where two car systems are out,
where they want to take out the cows too.
No.
That is not...
That is not...
BIDEN: Not true.
TRUMP:That's not true either, right?
BIDEN: Not true.
TRUMP:This is a 100 trillion-
BIDEN: Simply... Look-
That is simply not the case.
TRUMP: That's more money than our country could make in 100 years if we're -
WALLACE: All right. Let me . . . Wait a minute, sir.
That is simply not the case.
WALLACE: I actually have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million homes over four years, building one and a half million energy efficient homes. So the question becomes, some, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say, that sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy.
BIDEN: What it's going to do, it's going to create thousands and millions of jobs.
TRUMP: 100 trillion dollars.
Good paying jobs. WALLACE: Let him finish, sir.
BIDEN: He doesn't know how to do that.
BIDEN: The fact is, it's going to create millions of good paying jobs, and these tax incentives for people to weatherize, which he wants to get rid of. It's going to make the economy much safer. Look how much we're paying now to deal with the hurricanes, deal with... By the way, he has an answer for hurricanes. He said, maybe we should drop a nuclear weapon on them, and they may-
TRUMP: I never said that at all-
BIDEN: Yeah, he did say that.
TRUMP: They made it up.
BIDEN: And here's the deal.
TRUMP: You make up a lot.
We're going to be in a position where we can create hard, hard, good jobs by making sure the environment is clean, and we all are in better shape. We spend billions of dollars now, billions of dollars, on floods, hurricanes, rising seas. We're in real trouble. Look what's happened just in the Midwest with these storms that come through and wipe out entire sections and counties in Iowa. They didn't happen before. They're because of global warming. We make up 15% of the world's problem. We in fact ... But the rest of the world, we've got to get them to come along. That's why we have to get back into, back into the Paris accord.WALLACE: All right, gentlemen-
TRUMP: Wait a minute, Chris. So why didn't he do it for 47 years?
BIDEN: For 47-
You were vice president, so why didn't you get the world... China sends up real dirt into the air. Russia does. India does. They all do. We're supposed to be good. And by the way, he made a couple of statements. BIDEN: That is not my plan. The Green New Deal is not my plan. If he knew anything about, if he knew anything about ...
The Green New Deal is a hundred trillion dollars, not 20 billion. You want to rebuild every building, you want to rebuild every building.WALLACE: Gentlemen. . .
TRUMP: He made a statement about the military. He said I said something about the military. He and his friends made it up, and then they went with it. I never said it.
BIDEN: That is not true.
You're done in this segment.
Mister, please, sir.
Stop.
Mister, please, sir.
Stop.
What he did is he said he called the military stupid bastards.
He said it on tape. He said stupid bastards. He said it.
I would never say that.
You're on tape . . [Snopes: Mostly false.]
He said it on tape. He said stupid bastards. He said it.
I would never say that.
You're on tape . . [Snopes: Mostly false.]
I did not say that . . .
Play it. Play it-
WALLACE: Go ahead, Mr. Vice President, answer his final question.
BIDEN: The final question is, I can't remember which of all his rantings he was talking about.
WALLACE (laughing): I'm having a little trouble myself, but...
BIDEN: Yeah.
WALLACE: And about the economy and about this question of what it's going to cost.
BIDEN: The economy-
WALLACE: I mean, the Green New Deal and the idea of what your environmental changes will do.
BIDEN: The Green New Deal will pay for itself as we move forward. We're not going to build plants that, in fact, are great polluting plants-
WALLACE: So, do you support the Green New Deal?
BIDEN: Pardon me?
WALLACE: Do you support the ...
BIDEN: No, I don't support the Green New Deal.
TRUMP: Oh, you don't? Oh, well, that's a big statement.
BIDEN: I support the -
TRUMP: That means you just lost the radical left.
BIDEN: I support the Biden plan that I put forward.
WALLACE: Okay.
BIDEN: The Biden plan, which is different than what he calls the radical Green New Deal.